BC25 Presenter | John Mark McMillan | Technology, AI Jesus and Meaning Making

"Technology does a really good job of floating us past all of these inconvenient blessings." - John Mark McMillan

Today on the show, singer-songwriter John Mark Mcmillan joins me to talk about his new music, technology's impact on the arts, confessing to an AI Jesus, and recovering a sense of meaning in our disenchanted world.

If you’ve listened to the Makers and Mystics podcast or have been to any of our Breath and Clay events, then you’ll know that John Mark is no stranger to our community. He’s been a part of the Breath and Clay and Makers and Mystics world since the beginning. We love keeping up with his creative work and appreciate his voice to this community.

John Mark will be bringing his full band to perform some of the new songs for the first time ever in public at The Breath and The Clay March 21-23, 2025.

Topics:

The Impact of Technology on The Arts
AI Jesus
God embraces your whole story

Links/Resources:

Connect with John Mark

Book Mention: I'll Take You There: Pop Music and The Urge for Transcendence by Bill Friskics-Warren

AI Jesus Article

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BC25Stephen RoachFebruary 18, 2025John Mark McMillan

Makers and Mystics | Live In Boulder, Colorado

This episode offers a preview of the types of panels we'll be hosting at The Breath and The Clay 2025. It includes a live conversation with Grammy Award-winning singer/songwriter Victory Boyd, gospel recording artist Leeland Mooring, visual artist and curator Corey Frey, and podcast host Stephen Roach."

This conversation was recorded live at the Resound Creative Arts event in Boulder, Colorado.

Reserve Your Spot at The Breath and The Clay March 21-23 in Winston Salem, NC.

BC25Stephen RoachFebruary 12, 2025Makers and Mystics Live, Victory Boyd, Leeland Mooring, Corey Frey, Stephen Roach

BC25 Presenter | Theopoetics and Comic Book Mythology with de'Angelo DIA

In this series of conversations, Makers and Mystics will highlight several of the presenters and themes for the BC25 creative arts gathering, March 21-23, in Winston Salem, NC.

Today’s guest is Theo-poet and mystic Dr. de’Angelo DIA. The conversation explores the intersections of poetry, theology, and personal experience. DIA discusses how his early exposure to literature and comic book mythology shaped his understanding of sacredness and black charismatic spirituality. Stephen Roach highlights BC25 themes of fragmentation and wholeness, the search for the divine in secular spaces, and the influence of neo-Appalachian art on DIA’s work.

Learn more about Dr. de’Angelo DIA

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Stephen RoachFebruary 4, 2025

S14 Reclaiming Wonder Finale with Stephen Roach

In the season 14 finale of Makers and Mystics, Stephen Roach reflects on the theme of reclaiming wonder. Drawing from personal stories, spiritual insights, and the wisdom shared by this season’s guests, Stephen examines how we can rediscover awe and beauty in our everyday lives, even in a world that often feels disconnected from the miraculous.

Stephen closes the episode with a thought-provoking insight: Wonder is not just an experience; it’s an invitation. It’s the residue of the divine, a call to transformation, and a reminder that we are made for more than survival. When we open ourselves to wonder, we become what we behold and begin to see the possibility for beauty and meaning in every corner of life.

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wonder, Reclaiming WonderStephen RoachJanuary 28, 2025Reclaiming Wonder, Stephen Roach

S14 E22: Etiquette of The Wild with Martin Shaw

Myths and storytelling have been a part of human culture since ancient times. From the oral traditions of indigenous peoples to the epic tales of gods and heroes, stories have shaped our understanding of the world, our place in it, and our deepest desires.

For artists, these narratives offer more than a glimpse into the past—they are a source of guidance, inspiration, and meaning.

In this final conversation of our ‘Reclaiming Wonder’ series, I am joined by renowned storyteller, mythologist and Christian thinker Martin Shaw.

In our conversation, Martin and I discuss the profound relationship between storytelling and the arts. Martin shares the importance of allowing stories to remain wild, to breathe, and not become domesticated by rushing to interpretation. We discuss the concept of being 'wedded to the wild' and the role of artists in re-wilding faith.

You can learn more about Martin’s work here

You can explore our library of over 300 episodes with artists, mystics, theologians, and creative thinkers at http://www.makersandmystics.com

Thank you to everyone who has followed along in this series of conversations. I’d love to hear from you. Which conversations inspired you most? Which ones did you wrestle with or skip over? Send me a line, and if you want to go deeper into these conversations, please consider joining our creative collective at http://www.patreon.com/makersandmystics

We’d love to have you with us.

I hope to meet you all at The Breath and The Clay event March 21-23, in Winston Salem, NC.

When you see me, come say hi. You’ll be in good company with other artists and creative seekers such as John Mark McMillan, Amanda Cook, Sho Baraka, Joshua Luke Smith, Kendra Apache, Elissa Weichbrodt and many others.

S14 E21: An Unexpected Doorway with Mirabai Starr

The new year is a time of reflecting, looking back over the lengths I’ve come, evaluating what has transpired in my life and in my inner life, and then looking ahead, seeking clarity and direction for where I will place my time, resources and attention for the months to come.

I find that a large part of transitioning from one moment in time to another involves letting go of the past, often grieving our losses, and making peace with the life we have rather than pining after the life we thought we would have or wanted to have. Then, through the mystery of the process, finding wonder even in grief, and in the midst of ordinary life.

My guest today is someone who has seen grief and loss in her own life and who also helps others on their journey through grief. She is one who has learned to recognize wonder in the most unexpected places, like grief and in letting go of the past. Her journey has led her through many different faith practices as well as her creative life has taken on many shapes and forms.

Today, I’m speaking with Award-winning author, contemporary translator of sacred literature, international speaker, and world-renowned teacher of contemplative practice and inter-spiritual dialog, Mirabai Starr.

This conversation was recorded earlier in 2024, but I think as we move into this new year, the conversation offers a timely invitation to find beauty even amidst our losses and to hold space for the every day to become a place of spiritual and creative transformation.

Much of our conversation centers on grief as an unexpected doorway to wonder. Mirabai shares about her most recent book, Ordinary Mysticism, which Ann Lamont calls a gorgeous, transformative, welcoming book for anyone who longs to feel more present, more alive, more joyful, and aware of the holiness of daily life.

Patrons of the podcast can enjoy a longer unedited version of this conversation which includes several additional stories of my own and several from Mirabai. Visit Patreon.com/makersandmystics to learn more.

GET TICKETS TO THE BREATH AND THE CLAY MARCH 21-23 2025.

Mystics, wonder, Reclaiming WonderStephen RoachJanuary 8, 2025Mirabai Starr, Mystic

S14 E20: Beauty Is Oxygen with Wesley Vander Lugt

Wesley Vander Lugt is a pastor, theologian, writer, and arts advocate. He teaches theology and directs the Leighton Ford Center for Theology, the Arts and Gospel Witness at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary in Charlotte North Carolina. Wes holds a PhD in Theology, Imagination and the Arts from the University of St Andrews, and his latest books are Beauty is Oxygen: Finding a Faith that Breathes and the forthcoming A Prophet in the Darkness: Exploring Theology in the Art of Georges Rouault.

In my conversation with Wes, we discuss his latest book Beauty Is Oxygen and the role beauty plays in our experiences of wonder.

This episode is sponsored by The Breath and The Clay Creative Arts Organization, exploring the intersections of art, faith and culture. Our next gathering is March 21-23 in Winston Salem, NC. and features a diverse roster of presenters and performers, including Sho Baraka, Amanda Cook, John Mark McMillan, and many others. Tickets are on sale now at thebreathandtheclay.com

Author, authors, Beauty, Faith and Art, Reclaiming WonderStephen RoachDecember 31, 2024wes vander lugt, gordon conwell, theologian, beauty

The Breath and The Clay 2025!!

The Breath and The Clay is returning to Winston Salem, NC!! Join us March 21-23rd, 2025, for our annual creative arts gathering!

This event will feature musical performances, an immersive art gallery, keynote talks, various workshops, and community discussions.

Participating artists include Sho Baraka, Kendra Adachi, John Mark McMillan, Molly Parden, Justin McRoberts, and many, many others.

You can find out more about the event and reserve your spot today at thebreathandtheclay.com.

Visual Artists and Film-makers! Submit your works for inclusion in our immersive art gallery here.

Follow the event on Instagram for regular updates @thebreathandtheclay

live event, Live EventsStephen RoachDecember 17, 2024The Breath and the Clay

S14 E19: A Long Curiosity with Rob Bell

Rob Bell is the New York Times Best-Selling author of fourteen books and plays, which have been translated into 25 languages. His visual art can be seen on Instagram @realrobbell. His band is HUMANS ON THE FLOOR, and his podcast is The RobCast.

Today on Makers and Mystics, Rob and I are talking about his Interplanetary tale of love, loss, and bread, his sci-fi fantasy novel Where’d You Park Your Spaceship.

In our conversation, we discuss following creative tangents and the long curiosity that keeps inviting us to follow them.

This episode is sponsored by The Breath and The Clay Creative Arts Organization. Our next gathering is March 21-23 in Winston Salem NC. Tickets are on sale now.

S14 E18: Awakening Wonder In An Anxious Age with author Katherine May

Katherine May is an internationally renowned writer, podcaster and speaker whose work touches on nature, spirituality, slow living and neurodivergence.

Her hybrid memoir Wintering was a global bestseller, adapted as BBC Radio 4’s Book of the Week, and shortlisted for the Porchlight and Barnes & Noble Book of the Year. Her most recent title, Enchantment became an instant New York Times bestseller.

In our conversation Katherine and I discuss the common need for rediscovering pathways into enchantment and wonder. We discuss her concept of wintering and how even our most difficult times can become sources of creative and spiritual nourishment.

Patrons of the podcast can enjoy an exclusive segment of our conversation where Katherine and I unpack the phrase “secular mystic” as she’s described in the inner sleeve of Wintering.

I’d like to personally invite you to join us at The Breath and The Clay creative arts gathering March 21-23 2025 in Winston Salem, NC. Get Tickets here.

Author, authors, Enchantment, wonder, storytellingStephen RoachNovember 26, 2024author, Katherine May, wonder, reenchantment, enchantment, Best selling, memoir

S14 E17: Heavy Hope with Film Director Thomas Torrey

The question of when it is time to let go of a dream haunts most creatives at one time or another. Living out our sense of fidelity to a creative vision shifts and changes over time, just as the demands of life shift and change over time. But finding a way forward can be challenging, and there is no one-size-fits-all answer. Film producer Thomas Torrey has tackled this question in his recent musical drama Long December.

Thomas Torrey is a writer/director/producer based in the Southeast. His production company, Bad Theology, has produced three feature films, including the 2017 ride-share thriller FARE, which the Los Angeles Times called “stunning” and Bloody Flicks named as one of the Ten Best Films of the Year; the 2020 mind-bender MINOR PREMISE, which Forbes called “one of the best sci-fi thrillers of the past decade”; and the newly released musical drama LONG DECEMBER, winner of the 2024 One In A Million Award at the Sun Valley Film Festival. Thomas continues to produce films under Bad Theology and also founded a company called Protagonist, with a mission to help entrepreneurs and business leaders communicate and craft their stories through documentaries and social media content. You can follow Long December @longdecember.movie, Bad Theology @badtheology, and Protagonist @protagonist.company.

I caught up with Thomas in his hometown of Charlotte, North Carolina, to discuss the new film and the creative process behind its making.

Many of our listeners will be familiar with several members of the cast, including long-time friends of the podcast, John Mark McMillan and Stephen Williams of Jude Moses.

Patrons of the podcast can enjoy an additional interview segment with Thomas on the power of community in the creative process. Visit patreon.com/makersandmystics to learn more.

S14 E16: The Gift of The Elders with Petra Bagust

Makers and Mystics has teamed up with New Zealand's Sunday Sanctuary Podcast for a special collaborative episode.

For the November 10th episode of Sunday Sanctuary, Stephen Roach joins host Petra Bagust for a chat about poetry, creativity, and the different ways that noticing the small wonders of the world can reopen, restore, and change our lives.

In this segment of the conversation, Petra and Stephen discuss the wonder found in Maori culture, storytelling, and the gift of our elders.

Petra Bagust is a multi-talented Aotearoa, New Zealand media personality, writer, and advocate. Her passion for creativity and ethical living resonates with a wildly diverse audience, making her one of New Zealand’s most sought-after radio and television hosts since the nineties.

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Community, Culture, Reclaiming Wonder, storytellingStephen RoachNovember 12, 2024Petra Bagust, New Zealand

S14 E15: Contours of Enchantment with Cheryl Bridges Johns

For many people, and perhaps even for some of our listeners, the Bible elicits a very different response from one person to another. For some, it is a source of comfort and spiritual nourishment, even a great source of creative inspiration, while for others, it brings up difficult questions or even negative emotions and uncomfortable associations.

But as we’ve talked this season about disenchantment and reclaiming wonder, I’m curious if taking a second look at this collection of stories, songs, and spiritual directives may be yet another unexpected doorway into wonder.

My guest today is author and scholar Cheryl Bridges Johns. Cheryl is the author of four books including Re-enchanting The Text: Rediscovering the Bible As Sacred, Dangerous and Mysterious.

In our conversation, we discuss the impact of looking at scripture solely from a didactic viewpoint and what may occur in the reader who instead approaches the Bible as a mystical text with the uncanny ability to change and transform, even re-enchant its reader with a renewed spiritual vitality and understanding of God and the human condition. Cheryl and I also discuss the importance of nature as God’s second book and the role of imagination in creating the world around us.

Patrons of the podcast can enjoy an additional interview segment with Cheryl offering several practices to unlock a renewed vision on your creative and spiritual life.

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S14 E14: Catharsis with Lacey Sturm

Lacey Sturm is a Grammy-nominated queen of hard rock who secured a place in rock history as the first solo woman to top the Billboard Hard Rock Albums chart with her debut album Life Screams. With a career spanning songs like “All Around Me,” “I’m So Sick,” “Again,” “Impossible,” “State of Me'' and most recently “Awaken Love,”

Lacey Sturm has proven herself as one of the most powerful and enduring voices in hard rock. She is also a sought-after speaker and author, penning the autobiographical books The Reason, The Mystery and The Return. Also a dedicated wife and mother, Lacey tours with her family, supported on stage by her guitarist husband Josh Sturm. You can connect with Lacey at www.laceysturm.com

In this episode, Lacey shares openly about walking through devastating experiences early in life and the role music played in helping her find healing. She shares about her life now and how changing seasons bring out unexpected encounters with beauty and hope.

*Also, just a heads up, our talk today includes sensitive subject matter, including mental health, abuse, and domestic violence.

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S14 E13: Van Gogh Has A Broken Heart with Russ Ramsey

Russ Ramsey is an author and pastor with a passion for uniting art and faith. He has been in vocational ministry for more than twenty years and currently serves as the lead pastor of Christ Presbyterian Church’s Cool Springs location. He holds an MDiv and ThM from Covenant Theological Seminary, and is the author of six books, including Rembrandt is in the Wind: Learning to Love Art through the Eyes of Faith (Zondervan 2022), and Behold the King of Glory, recipient of the 2016 Christian Book Award for New Author. Russ was also a founding contributor and member of The Rabbit Room and is a featured speaker each year at The Rabbit Room’s annual conference, Hutchmoot.

In today’s episode Russ discusses his new book, Van Gogh has a Broken Heart. The conversation explores how Van Gogh’s life and art reveal universal themes of struggle and wonder and what Van Gogh reveals about the human condition.

Patrons of the podcast can enjoy an additional interview segment on why the arts are important to communities of faith. Visit Patreon.com/makersandmystics to learn more.

Name Drops: Van Gogh, Norman Rockwell, Paul Simon, Rembrandt,

Books: The Sunflowers Are Mine, Van Gogh Has A Broken Heart

Topics: Suffering, Van Gogh, Wonder, Faith, Honesty in art, mental health, emotional well-being

Van Gogh Letters

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S14 E12: Sitting With The Muse featuring Nick Leng

Nick Leng is a Los Angeles-based multi-instrumentalist, singer/songwriter and producer known for his abstract blend of electronica, classical piano and ambient soundscapes. Nick’s music is hard to categorize but evokes a sense of musical synesthesia, which he describes as a kaleidoscope of emotions turned into sounds.

Nick's musical journey began in his early years growing up in South Africa, where he was classically trained on the piano. His formal education provided a strong foundation for his later experimental approach, as he learned to seamlessly blend technical skill with a passion for experimentation.

In today’s episode, Nick talks with me about his musical development and the nuances of his ever-evolving creative process.

In a world where artists are often pressured to keep up with the demands of producing new content, Nick shares openly about his struggles with the industry’s relentless pace. He talks with me about the importance of resisting this pressure and taking time to sit with the muse, allowing his songs to develop naturally.

In keeping with our Season theme of Reclaiming Wonder, Nick contributes a fascinating perspective on discovering wonder within new sounds and new ways of approaching music.

Listen on Apple Podcasts

Listen on Spotify

S14 E11 LIVE: Embodied Faith and The Art of Edward Knippers

Edward Knippers is a visual artist whose large-scale body of work spans 50 years of practice and explores various genres, including figurative, expressionism, abstraction, and cubism.

His work has been displayed in museums, galleries, and private collections worldwide and centers on the human body.

His paintings often depict scenes from biblical narratives and invite us to consider the goodness, brokenness, mystery, and glory of embodiment, urging us to grapple with the temptation to avoid, sexualize, downplay, or disparage the human form.

Image Journal said of Edward Knippers that he is "without a doubt, one of the founding fathers of contemporary efforts to explore the relationship between Christian faith and the creation of outstanding new visual art.”

Alongside garnering numerous awards and accolades, Ed’s work has been the subject of much controversy. It has been banned, defaced, and even mutilated. The nudity, sometimes violent or disfigured forms within his paintings, have left some viewers offended at his imaginative handling of the biblical narratives.

I had the honor of interviewing Edward live at Gordon Conwell’s Embodied Faith Symposium in Charlotte NC. In our talk, I ask Ed about the role of embodiment within his work, how he has handled his critics and what advice he would give to this generation of emerging artists.

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Knippers self-portrait (Catherine Prescott, The Artist, Edward Knippers, Oil on panel, 12 x 9″, 2022, Private Collection)

S14 E10: Dreamscapes with visual artist Chalom

Melbourne-based visual artist and electronic musician Mike Lane creates under the name Chalom, a name spoken to him in a dream. His practice consists of visually expressing dreams and meditations, with mostly found materials, embedded bible pages, penciled notes, and spray paint.

Beyond the haphazard backgrounds of his paintings, brushes or tools are rarely used in the making, just hands and fingers employing scrawly texts, scribbles, and vaguely figurative forms.

CHALOM’s prolific work is a deeply spiritual practice, and he loves to write blessings and prophecies, hidden under the paintings for the viewer to experience as mysteries and positive energetic flow, intended to shift the atmosphere in the spaces where the works are hung.

In this episode, Chalom talks with Stephen Roach about his creative process and the deeply-felt spiritual underpinnings behind his visual art.

S14 E09: The Poetic Eye with Stephen Roach

In this episode, podcast host Stephen Roach takes listeners on a journey into the world of ecstatic poetry. Drawing from the wisdom of Trappist Monk, Thomas Merton and author/scholar Michael Edwards, Stephen highlights poetry as mankind’s first language. He tells us, the meaning of a poem is not found in what a poem is about, but rather what effect the poem has on it’s hearer. Through reciting several of his own poems, Stephen reveals poetry and the poetic encounter as a doorway to wonder.

Purchase Stephen's Poetry

poetry, poet, Reclaiming WonderStephen RoachSeptember 25, 2024poetry, mystical poetry

S14 E08: Reclaiming Your Voice with author Shannon K. Evans

Our voice is one of the most uniquely defining qualities of our person. For artists and writers, finding our voice is a foundational and often painstaking process of search and discovery. For many, finding the courage to acknowledge, I am an artist. I am a writer. I am a musician, takes a lot of courage. Speaking it out for the first time can be an act of bravery and overcoming self doubt, imposter syndrome and fear.

In her book, The Mystics Would Like A Word, author Shannon K. Evans says,

“Claiming your own voice - your own perspective, your own experience, your own intuition, your own prophetic call to the world - is essential for artmaking.”

In this episode, Shannon talks about her journey of overcoming imposter syndrome, embracing her whole experience of balancing artistry and motherhood and how six revolutionary women mystics helped her reclaim her authentic voice.

Patrons of the podcast can enjoy exclusive interview segments at http://patreon.,com/makersandmystics

Apply to attend The Breath and The Clay Writer's Retreat. Oct. 25-27, 2024 in Moravian Falls, NC.

Author, contemplation, everyday life, Mystics, Reclaiming Wonder, wonderStephen RoachSeptember 18, 2024author, mystics, women mystics, Shannon K Evans

S14 E07: Nature As Metaphor with Enneagram Coach Stephanie Spencer

Stephanie J. Spencer is a visual artist, author, nature-lover and an Enneagram coach who is not afraid of hard questions. She loves moving towards the struggles of the human experience to help people find new ways forward. Stephanie has spent years coaching individuals and teams from around the country, from major universities to local churches, from Fortune 500 companies to small businesses. Time and again, she has seen the power of the Enneagram, imagery, and questions to open pathways for growth and transformation.

In our conversation, Stephanie and I discuss the Enneagram as a tool to help artists become more self aware and understand their own temperaments and motivations. Drawing from her book, Out of The Box and Into the Wild, Stephanie and I talk about discovering wonder in nature and how the natural world can serve as a metaphor for our own internal landscapes.

You can find links to Stephanie’s work as well as an unedited version of this conversation in the show notes and at patreon.com/makersandmystics

Enneagram, nature, wonderStephen RoachSeptember 11, 2024Enneagram, coach

S14 E06: Learning To See with Paul J. Pastor

When we think of wonder or beauty, we might be inclined to think in terms of an external appearance, a scene of nature or an attractive person. But what if wonder is something that grows from the inside out? What if wonder is way of seeing? And what if wonder is an interior force, one that begins in the hidden recesses of our perceptions?

Today, on the show I’m talking with Oregon-based, poet, writer and critic, Paul J Pastor. Paul serves HarperCollins as senior acquisitions editor for their Zondervan imprint, and also serves as a contributing editor for Ekstasis magazine. He's the author of several books, including Bower Lodge: Poems, and two forthcoming titles: The Locust Years and The Fire Cantos.

In our conversation, Paul and I discuss the importance of learning to see as a means of engaging wonder. Drawing from the work of William Blake, Flannery O’ Connor and stories from the Gospels, this episode takes us on a journey into our perceptions and invites us to reconsider beauty as more than an aesthetic experience.

Author, Faith and Art, Philosophy, Reclaiming Wonder, theologyStephen RoachSeptember 4, 2024Paul J Pastor, Literature, poet, philosophy

The Breath & The Clay Writer's Retreat

The Breath & The Clay 2024 Writer's Retreat is designed to give writers of all levels space to get away from the noise of everyday life and focus on their craft, connect with fellow creatives, or make progress on a current project.

Over the course of the retreat, you'll have the opportunity to engage in focused writing sessions, participate in group discussions, and receive feedback from peers. Whether you're working on a novel, memoir, poetry collection, or any other writing project, this retreat offers a supportive environment to inspire your creativity and help you achieve your goals.

Presenters include: Amanda Held Opelt, Stephen and Sarah Roach, Corey Frey and other voices from The Breath and The Clay community.

Sessions will cover a range of topics from practice to publication including:

• Creative Prompts

• Getting Unstuck

• Cultivating Attentiveness

• How to Write Well

• Getting Published.

The retreat will take place at Apple Hill Lodge in the beautiful mountains of Moravian Falls, NC. The full tuition is $500. This includes food, snacks, lodging, and supplies. Upon acceptance, a non-refundable deposit of $250. will be required to secure your spot. The balance is due prior to arrival.

Please complete this application to be considered for participation.

retreatStephen RoachAugust 29, 2024writer's retreat

S14 E05: Postures of Attentiveness with Mary McCampbell and Joe Kickasola

Philosopher, Simone Weil said that attentiveness is the heart of prayer. In this episode, we discuss postures of attentiveness as gateways to wonder.

Guests: Dr. Mary McCampbell is an author, educator, and speaker whose publications span the worlds of literature, film, and popular music. She is the author of Imagining Our Neighbors as Ourselves: How Art Shapes Empathy.

Dr. Joe Kickasola is a Professor of Film and Digital Media at Baylor University. He is the author of The Films of Krzysztof Kieślowski: The Liminal Image, and has published in numerous academic venues and anthologies, including Film Quarterly, The Quarterly Review of Film and Video, and The Routledge Companion to Philosophy and Film.

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Topics: Attentiveness, cynicism, receptivity, humility, consumerism, experiencing wonder during times of upheaval,

Art Forms: filmmaking, photography, literature.

Name Drops: Douglas Copeland, G.K. Chesterton, Jim Jarmusch, Terrence Malick, T.S.Eliot, Wallace Stevens, Andrei Tarkovsky, Andrey Rublev, Rothko, Stan Brakhage, Virginia Wolfe, David Foster Wallace,

Movie References: Patterson, Tree of Life, Zabriskie Point

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