S14 E17: Heavy Hope with Film Director Thomas Torrey

The question of when it is time to let go of a dream haunts most creatives at one time or another. Living out our sense of fidelity to a creative vision shifts and changes over time, just as the demands of life shift and change over time. But finding a way forward can be challenging, and there is no one-size-fits-all answer. Film producer Thomas Torrey has tackled this question in his recent musical drama Long December.

Thomas Torrey is a writer/director/producer based in the Southeast. His production company, Bad Theology, has produced three feature films, including the 2017 ride-share thriller FARE, which the Los Angeles Times called “stunning” and Bloody Flicks named as one of the Ten Best Films of the Year; the 2020 mind-bender MINOR PREMISE, which Forbes called “one of the best sci-fi thrillers of the past decade”; and the newly released musical drama LONG DECEMBER, winner of the 2024 One In A Million Award at the Sun Valley Film Festival. Thomas continues to produce films under Bad Theology and also founded a company called Protagonist, with a mission to help entrepreneurs and business leaders communicate and craft their stories through documentaries and social media content. You can follow Long December @longdecember.movie, Bad Theology @badtheology, and Protagonist @protagonist.company.

I caught up with Thomas in his hometown of Charlotte, North Carolina, to discuss the new film and the creative process behind its making.

Many of our listeners will be familiar with several members of the cast, including long-time friends of the podcast, John Mark McMillan and Stephen Williams of Jude Moses.

Patrons of the podcast can enjoy an additional interview segment with Thomas on the power of community in the creative process. Visit patreon.com/makersandmystics to learn more.

S14 E16: The Gift of The Elders with Petra Bagust

Makers and Mystics has teamed up with New Zealand's Sunday Sanctuary Podcast for a special collaborative episode.

For the November 10th episode of Sunday Sanctuary, Stephen Roach joins host Petra Bagust for a chat about poetry, creativity, and the different ways that noticing the small wonders of the world can reopen, restore, and change our lives.

In this segment of the conversation, Petra and Stephen discuss the wonder found in Maori culture, storytelling, and the gift of our elders.

Petra Bagust is a multi-talented Aotearoa, New Zealand media personality, writer, and advocate. Her passion for creativity and ethical living resonates with a wildly diverse audience, making her one of New Zealand’s most sought-after radio and television hosts since the nineties.

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Community, Culture, Reclaiming Wonder, storytellingStephen RoachNovember 12, 2024Petra Bagust, New Zealand

S14 E15: Contours of Enchantment with Cheryl Bridges Johns

For many people, and perhaps even for some of our listeners, the Bible elicits a very different response from one person to another. For some, it is a source of comfort and spiritual nourishment, even a great source of creative inspiration, while for others, it brings up difficult questions or even negative emotions and uncomfortable associations.

But as we’ve talked this season about disenchantment and reclaiming wonder, I’m curious if taking a second look at this collection of stories, songs, and spiritual directives may be yet another unexpected doorway into wonder.

My guest today is author and scholar Cheryl Bridges Johns. Cheryl is the author of four books including Re-enchanting The Text: Rediscovering the Bible As Sacred, Dangerous and Mysterious.

In our conversation, we discuss the impact of looking at scripture solely from a didactic viewpoint and what may occur in the reader who instead approaches the Bible as a mystical text with the uncanny ability to change and transform, even re-enchant its reader with a renewed spiritual vitality and understanding of God and the human condition. Cheryl and I also discuss the importance of nature as God’s second book and the role of imagination in creating the world around us.

Patrons of the podcast can enjoy an additional interview segment with Cheryl offering several practices to unlock a renewed vision on your creative and spiritual life.

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S14 E14: Catharsis with Lacey Sturm

Lacey Sturm is a Grammy-nominated queen of hard rock who secured a place in rock history as the first solo woman to top the Billboard Hard Rock Albums chart with her debut album Life Screams. With a career spanning songs like “All Around Me,” “I’m So Sick,” “Again,” “Impossible,” “State of Me'' and most recently “Awaken Love,”

Lacey Sturm has proven herself as one of the most powerful and enduring voices in hard rock. She is also a sought-after speaker and author, penning the autobiographical books The Reason, The Mystery and The Return. Also a dedicated wife and mother, Lacey tours with her family, supported on stage by her guitarist husband Josh Sturm. You can connect with Lacey at www.laceysturm.com

In this episode, Lacey shares openly about walking through devastating experiences early in life and the role music played in helping her find healing. She shares about her life now and how changing seasons bring out unexpected encounters with beauty and hope.

*Also, just a heads up, our talk today includes sensitive subject matter, including mental health, abuse, and domestic violence.

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S14 E13: Van Gogh Has A Broken Heart with Russ Ramsey

Russ Ramsey is an author and pastor with a passion for uniting art and faith. He has been in vocational ministry for more than twenty years and currently serves as the lead pastor of Christ Presbyterian Church’s Cool Springs location. He holds an MDiv and ThM from Covenant Theological Seminary, and is the author of six books, including Rembrandt is in the Wind: Learning to Love Art through the Eyes of Faith (Zondervan 2022), and Behold the King of Glory, recipient of the 2016 Christian Book Award for New Author. Russ was also a founding contributor and member of The Rabbit Room and is a featured speaker each year at The Rabbit Room’s annual conference, Hutchmoot.

In today’s episode Russ discusses his new book, Van Gogh has a Broken Heart. The conversation explores how Van Gogh’s life and art reveal universal themes of struggle and wonder and what Van Gogh reveals about the human condition.

Patrons of the podcast can enjoy an additional interview segment on why the arts are important to communities of faith. Visit Patreon.com/makersandmystics to learn more.

Name Drops: Van Gogh, Norman Rockwell, Paul Simon, Rembrandt,

Books: The Sunflowers Are Mine, Van Gogh Has A Broken Heart

Topics: Suffering, Van Gogh, Wonder, Faith, Honesty in art, mental health, emotional well-being

Van Gogh Letters

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S14 E12: Sitting With The Muse featuring Nick Leng

Nick Leng is a Los Angeles-based multi-instrumentalist, singer/songwriter and producer known for his abstract blend of electronica, classical piano and ambient soundscapes. Nick’s music is hard to categorize but evokes a sense of musical synesthesia, which he describes as a kaleidoscope of emotions turned into sounds.

Nick's musical journey began in his early years growing up in South Africa, where he was classically trained on the piano. His formal education provided a strong foundation for his later experimental approach, as he learned to seamlessly blend technical skill with a passion for experimentation.

In today’s episode, Nick talks with me about his musical development and the nuances of his ever-evolving creative process.

In a world where artists are often pressured to keep up with the demands of producing new content, Nick shares openly about his struggles with the industry’s relentless pace. He talks with me about the importance of resisting this pressure and taking time to sit with the muse, allowing his songs to develop naturally.

In keeping with our Season theme of Reclaiming Wonder, Nick contributes a fascinating perspective on discovering wonder within new sounds and new ways of approaching music.

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S14 E11 LIVE: Embodied Faith and The Art of Edward Knippers

Edward Knippers is a visual artist whose large-scale body of work spans 50 years of practice and explores various genres, including figurative, expressionism, abstraction, and cubism.

His work has been displayed in museums, galleries, and private collections worldwide and centers on the human body.

His paintings often depict scenes from biblical narratives and invite us to consider the goodness, brokenness, mystery, and glory of embodiment, urging us to grapple with the temptation to avoid, sexualize, downplay, or disparage the human form.

Image Journal said of Edward Knippers that he is "without a doubt, one of the founding fathers of contemporary efforts to explore the relationship between Christian faith and the creation of outstanding new visual art.”

Alongside garnering numerous awards and accolades, Ed’s work has been the subject of much controversy. It has been banned, defaced, and even mutilated. The nudity, sometimes violent or disfigured forms within his paintings, have left some viewers offended at his imaginative handling of the biblical narratives.

I had the honor of interviewing Edward live at Gordon Conwell’s Embodied Faith Symposium in Charlotte NC. In our talk, I ask Ed about the role of embodiment within his work, how he has handled his critics and what advice he would give to this generation of emerging artists.

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Knippers self-portrait (Catherine Prescott, The Artist, Edward Knippers, Oil on panel, 12 x 9″, 2022, Private Collection)

S14 E10: Dreamscapes with visual artist Chalom

Melbourne-based visual artist and electronic musician Mike Lane creates under the name Chalom, a name spoken to him in a dream. His practice consists of visually expressing dreams and meditations, with mostly found materials, embedded bible pages, penciled notes, and spray paint.

Beyond the haphazard backgrounds of his paintings, brushes or tools are rarely used in the making, just hands and fingers employing scrawly texts, scribbles, and vaguely figurative forms.

CHALOM’s prolific work is a deeply spiritual practice, and he loves to write blessings and prophecies, hidden under the paintings for the viewer to experience as mysteries and positive energetic flow, intended to shift the atmosphere in the spaces where the works are hung.

In this episode, Chalom talks with Stephen Roach about his creative process and the deeply-felt spiritual underpinnings behind his visual art.

S14 E09: The Poetic Eye with Stephen Roach

In this episode, podcast host Stephen Roach takes listeners on a journey into the world of ecstatic poetry. Drawing from the wisdom of Trappist Monk, Thomas Merton and author/scholar Michael Edwards, Stephen highlights poetry as mankind’s first language. He tells us, the meaning of a poem is not found in what a poem is about, but rather what effect the poem has on it’s hearer. Through reciting several of his own poems, Stephen reveals poetry and the poetic encounter as a doorway to wonder.

Purchase Stephen's Poetry

poetry, poet, Reclaiming WonderStephen RoachSeptember 25, 2024poetry, mystical poetry

S14 E08: Reclaiming Your Voice with author Shannon K. Evans

Our voice is one of the most uniquely defining qualities of our person. For artists and writers, finding our voice is a foundational and often painstaking process of search and discovery. For many, finding the courage to acknowledge, I am an artist. I am a writer. I am a musician, takes a lot of courage. Speaking it out for the first time can be an act of bravery and overcoming self doubt, imposter syndrome and fear.

In her book, The Mystics Would Like A Word, author Shannon K. Evans says,

“Claiming your own voice - your own perspective, your own experience, your own intuition, your own prophetic call to the world - is essential for artmaking.”

In this episode, Shannon talks about her journey of overcoming imposter syndrome, embracing her whole experience of balancing artistry and motherhood and how six revolutionary women mystics helped her reclaim her authentic voice.

Patrons of the podcast can enjoy exclusive interview segments at http://patreon.,com/makersandmystics

Apply to attend The Breath and The Clay Writer's Retreat. Oct. 25-27, 2024 in Moravian Falls, NC.

Author, contemplation, everyday life, Mystics, Reclaiming Wonder, wonderStephen RoachSeptember 18, 2024author, mystics, women mystics, Shannon K Evans

S14 E07: Nature As Metaphor with Enneagram Coach Stephanie Spencer

Stephanie J. Spencer is a visual artist, author, nature-lover and an Enneagram coach who is not afraid of hard questions. She loves moving towards the struggles of the human experience to help people find new ways forward. Stephanie has spent years coaching individuals and teams from around the country, from major universities to local churches, from Fortune 500 companies to small businesses. Time and again, she has seen the power of the Enneagram, imagery, and questions to open pathways for growth and transformation.

In our conversation, Stephanie and I discuss the Enneagram as a tool to help artists become more self aware and understand their own temperaments and motivations. Drawing from her book, Out of The Box and Into the Wild, Stephanie and I talk about discovering wonder in nature and how the natural world can serve as a metaphor for our own internal landscapes.

You can find links to Stephanie’s work as well as an unedited version of this conversation in the show notes and at patreon.com/makersandmystics

Enneagram, nature, wonderStephen RoachSeptember 11, 2024Enneagram, coach

S14 E06: Learning To See with Paul J. Pastor

When we think of wonder or beauty, we might be inclined to think in terms of an external appearance, a scene of nature or an attractive person. But what if wonder is something that grows from the inside out? What if wonder is way of seeing? And what if wonder is an interior force, one that begins in the hidden recesses of our perceptions?

Today, on the show I’m talking with Oregon-based, poet, writer and critic, Paul J Pastor. Paul serves HarperCollins as senior acquisitions editor for their Zondervan imprint, and also serves as a contributing editor for Ekstasis magazine. He's the author of several books, including Bower Lodge: Poems, and two forthcoming titles: The Locust Years and The Fire Cantos.

In our conversation, Paul and I discuss the importance of learning to see as a means of engaging wonder. Drawing from the work of William Blake, Flannery O’ Connor and stories from the Gospels, this episode takes us on a journey into our perceptions and invites us to reconsider beauty as more than an aesthetic experience.

Author, Faith and Art, Philosophy, Reclaiming Wonder, theologyStephen RoachSeptember 4, 2024Paul J Pastor, Literature, poet, philosophy

The Breath & The Clay Writer's Retreat

The Breath & The Clay 2024 Writer's Retreat is designed to give writers of all levels space to get away from the noise of everyday life and focus on their craft, connect with fellow creatives, or make progress on a current project.

Over the course of the retreat, you'll have the opportunity to engage in focused writing sessions, participate in group discussions, and receive feedback from peers. Whether you're working on a novel, memoir, poetry collection, or any other writing project, this retreat offers a supportive environment to inspire your creativity and help you achieve your goals.

Presenters include: Amanda Held Opelt, Stephen and Sarah Roach, Corey Frey and other voices from The Breath and The Clay community.

Sessions will cover a range of topics from practice to publication including:

• Creative Prompts

• Getting Unstuck

• Cultivating Attentiveness

• How to Write Well

• Getting Published.

The retreat will take place at Apple Hill Lodge in the beautiful mountains of Moravian Falls, NC. The full tuition is $500. This includes food, snacks, lodging, and supplies. Upon acceptance, a non-refundable deposit of $250. will be required to secure your spot. The balance is due prior to arrival.

Please complete this application to be considered for participation.

retreatStephen RoachAugust 29, 2024writer's retreat

S14 E05: Postures of Attentiveness with Mary McCampbell and Joe Kickasola

Philosopher, Simone Weil said that attentiveness is the heart of prayer. In this episode, we discuss postures of attentiveness as gateways to wonder.

Guests: Dr. Mary McCampbell is an author, educator, and speaker whose publications span the worlds of literature, film, and popular music. She is the author of Imagining Our Neighbors as Ourselves: How Art Shapes Empathy.

Dr. Joe Kickasola is a Professor of Film and Digital Media at Baylor University. He is the author of The Films of Krzysztof Kieślowski: The Liminal Image, and has published in numerous academic venues and anthologies, including Film Quarterly, The Quarterly Review of Film and Video, and The Routledge Companion to Philosophy and Film.

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Topics: Attentiveness, cynicism, receptivity, humility, consumerism, experiencing wonder during times of upheaval,

Art Forms: filmmaking, photography, literature.

Name Drops: Douglas Copeland, G.K. Chesterton, Jim Jarmusch, Terrence Malick, T.S.Eliot, Wallace Stevens, Andrei Tarkovsky, Andrey Rublev, Rothko, Stan Brakhage, Virginia Wolfe, David Foster Wallace,

Movie References: Patterson, Tree of Life, Zabriskie Point

Support The Podcast! We need your help to continue our work of advocating for the arts.

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S14 E04: Sacred Service Of The Actor with Cleo Rinkwest

Cleo Rinkwest is a South-African actor who has worked with the likes of Samuel L Jackson, The Walking Dead's Callan McCauliff, and Game of Thrones, Charlotte Hope. Through her acting, she seeks to perform stories that go beyond entertainment and enlighten her audiences to values of human flourishing.

Her current film projects follow themes of justice and mercy, capital punishment laws in Southern Africa, the supernatural realm, and the impact of AI on humanity.

In our conversation, Cleo shares about the sacred service of the actor, the role of empathy in her art form and how she embodies the personas of the characters she portrays. In keeping with our season theme Reclaiming Wonder, I asked Cleo what reclaiming wonder looks like in her life. Be sure to listen to the end for her answer.

If you’re a patron of podcast, we reserved a special segment of our conversation exclusively for you. In that segment, Cleo shares about the aspect of collaboration and the challenges of being a working actor in South Africa.

Acting, Actor, black artists, film, Reclaiming WonderStephen RoachAugust 21, 2024actor, Cleo Rinkwest, South African

S14 E03: How Do We Find Home? with Cody F. Miller

One of the more powerful aspects of visual art, is when a single image encapsulates an entire narrative, or when viewing a painting or illustration, the viewer’s imagination is invited to fill in the gaps and finish the tale. I recently came across an artist whose work embodies this narrative quality. I found myself going back to his images and studying what story was being told through the characters and gestures in each frame. I was moved to create in response. Which, for me is always a sure sign of a living work of art, when I am compelled to respond or when creativity is awakened and I am transported to an experience of wonder. Today, I have the honor of introducing this artist to you.

Cody F. Miller is a printmaker, illustrator, and mixed media artist whose illustrations often depict people on a journey, navigating the interplay between light and darkness, as they try to find their way home. Cody’s work has been included in numerous exhibitions and publications such as the “Arts Beacon of Light” at the Riffe Gallery in Columbus, Ohio, and the current front cover of Comment magazine. He received an Individual Excellence award in 2002 and 2018 from the Ohio Arts Council and is represented by the Sharon Weiss Gallery.

In our conversation, Cody shares about his own incredible journey of searching to find home and how discipline and everyday experiences become unlikely doorways to wonder.

If you have found yourself lacking wonder, I encourage you to spend some time with Cody’s work and also to listen to this episode in full for some practical wisdom on how to get unstuck. You can find images of Cody’s work on our Instagram and on his website.

Makers and Mystics Live Events!

Join Stephen Roach and guests for live recordings of the Makers and Mystics podcast. Follow the link for specific event details.

Embodied Faith Symposium featuring Ed Knippers, David O’ Taylor, Bruce Herman and others.

Resound Creative Arts Event - featuring Victory Boyd, Jason Upton, Leeland and others.

Kairos Arts Event - featuring Stephen Roach and guests TBA

Stephen RoachAugust 12, 2024

S14 E02: The Gifted State with Donna Matthews

Donna Matthews is a musician and creative artist. In the 1990’s she played lead guitar in Elastica and lo-fi, DIY band Klang, and in subsequent years devised and facilitated creative workshops for people in recovery from addiction. She is currently in her final year of a practice-based PhD in Music at the University of Glasgow. Interested in issues such as poetic intuition, inspiration, and gift, her work explores how the intuitive state might be conveyed through aesthetic form, whilst also exploring improvisation as a means of 'undoing form' to experience the inspired state.

In this episode, Donna shares about her winding journey through music, addiction and fusing her deeply felt spiritual practice with her artistic discipline. Donna discusses the role of improvisation, speaking in tongues and what Lewis Hyde terms as the Gifted State or that posture of heart which readies the creative artist to receive inspiration and experience wonder.

Patrons of the podcast can enjoy a full, unedited version of this conversation at http://www.patreon.com./makersandmystics

Here is a link to the Lewis Hyde interview mentioned in this episode.

Da Vinci or Dionysus? A Meditation on The Olympic Opening Performance

When we lack wonder, we settle for the evening news. When we lack spectacle, we settle for shock art. When we can’t see the burning bush, we set the dumpster on fire. By this point, the Olympics’ opening performance has been discussed ad nauseum. Most of us have grown weary of the vitriol and moved on. Therefore, I hesitate to add another voice to the fire, but as one who leads a community of mostly faith-based artists, the performance has held a particular interest to me. I have felt a measure of responsibility to weigh in but more importantly, I have felt a responsibility to ensure my response is not reactionary or regurgitating secondhand information. This bonus episode highlights a few of my thoughts.

Bonus EpisodeStephen RoachAugust 6, 2024davinci, dionysus

S14 E01: An Introduction

Wonder is all around us. In every moment, in every mundane or grand occasion. The earth and all that is in within it, is an unfolding poem spoken from divine lips in search of an audience.

In this introductory episode, Stephen Roach shares the groundwork for this season’s exploration of Reclaiming Wonder. He says, “It is the artist whose work bridges the realm of everyday life with the realm of mystery and deeper meaning. It is the artist who again re-enchants the world and helps us to reclaim our sense of wonder.”

wonderStephen RoachJuly 30, 2024Season 14

POEMA: An Online Course with Stephen Roach

In this 5 week course, Stephen shares from his lifelong journey as an artist and musician on various aspects of the creative process. Learn More here.

Stephen RoachJuly 23, 2024

S14 Trailer: Reclaiming Wonder

Around the turn of the century, German Sociologist, Max Weber coined the phrase ‘disenchantment’ as a way of describing society’s transition from a mythical or religious understanding of the world to a rationalistic, scientific view. Advancements in science and technology alongside a perceived decline of religious devotion rendered the world demystified or void of magic.

Religious opponents celebrated this transition as a liberation from old superstitions and worn-out beliefs, to a world formed purely of empirical fact. But after a hundred years or more since this shift in the social conscience, the human heart continues to yearn for meaning beyond the material world. It is the artist whose work bridges the realm of everyday life with the realm of mystery and deeper meaning. It is the artist who again re-enchants the world and calls us to reclaim our sense of wonder.

In this upcoming season of the podcast, we are going to explore what it means to reclaim wonder. We are going to talk with a number of guests from artists and theologians to Enneagram experts and actors. We want to invite you to take the journey alongside of us.

If you’re looking to reconnect to a sense of deeper meaning both in your creative life and your spiritual life, this season is designed to help.

Starting Tuesday, July 30th, and running every week following, the Makers and Mystics podcast begins our series to reclaim wonder.

Reclaiming WonderStephen RoachJuly 23, 2024trailer, Season 14

The Value of A Dream with Stephen Roach (Recorded Live in Urbana Illinois)

In this live talk, recorded at the Audiofeed Festival in Urbana, Illinois, Stephen Roach encourages listeners that the value of a dream is not contingent upon its coming to pass. The value of a dream, he says, is in the dreaming.

For anyone, who has grappled with the death of a dream or the pain of letting go, this talk will encourage you that a dream can take many shapes and forms and that nothing is wasted.

S13 E13: Frameworks of Community with Conor Sweetman and Yi Ning Chiu

In this Season Finale round table, founder of Ekstasis magazine, Conor Sweetman and essayist, Yi Ning Chiu discuss expressive individualism, various frameworks of community and why physical community remains essential in our modern, digitized culture.

Alongside of Ekstasis, Conor serves as the director of innovation for Christianity today while Yi Ning writes Please Don’t Go, a newsletter about life in community—why it’s terrible, why it’s essential, and why we shouldn’t give up on cultivating it.