The Problem with Beauty: From The Grotesque to The Sublime
The Problem with Beauty: From The Grotesque to The Sublime

Beauty is one of the most celebrated words in art and faith conversations, but it may also be one of the most misunderstood. Is beauty simply what pleases the eye, or is it something deeper? 

Can beauty exist alongside suffering, loss, and the grotesque? And what happens when we settle for beauty that comforts us while avoiding the realities that transform us?

What if beauty requires darkness, mystery, and even lament in order to reveal its deepest meaning? In this roundtable discussion, Stephen Roach and guests Corey Frey, Liv Ross, and Scott Aasman wrestle with beauty not as sentimentality or surface appeal, but as a force capable of holding together truth, goodness, suffering, and hope.

KEY TOPICS

  • Why beauty can feel inauthentic when it is removed from struggle

  • The original meaning of "glamour" as a veil designed to trap and deceive, and why that etymology still matters for artists today

  • How the three transcendentals — goodness, truth, and beauty — function like a trinity: remove one and the others collapse into vanity, brutality, or cover-up

  • What Edmund Burke and Kant meant by the sublime, and why terror and beauty belong together rather than apart

  • The real context behind Dostoevsky's phrase "beauty will save the world," drawn from The Idiot, and why stripping it from that argument changes everything

  • Thomas Kinkade's stated goal of painting a world where the Fall never happened, and what his private life and Andy Warhol quote reveal about the cost of bypassing Holy Saturday

  • Why form without substance is essentially pornographic, and how true beauty requires the material and the spiritual coming together

  • How artistic isolation stunts creative roots the way a tree grown in perfect conditions falls in the first storm and why community, friction, and disagreement strengthen both the artist and the work

About the Guests:

Corey Frey is a multidisciplinary artist, writer, and co-founder of The Well Collaborative, a community dedicated to creativity, curiosity, and culture. He lives in Maryland with his wife and continues to explore the intersections of art, faith, and imagination.

Liv Ross is an urban monk, poet, essayist, and Managing Editor of Traces Journal. Writing from the Ozarks, her work explores place, wonder, memory, and spiritual formation. Her first book, The Blackbird Ballad, was published by Solum Literary Press in 2026.

Scott Aasman is an award-winning illustrator, educator, and co-founder of Salt Cellar Arts, an arts-focused community for the spiritually attentive and creatively engaged. He lives in Hamilton, Ontario, with his wife and two children.

Resources Mentioned

  • Beauty Will Save the World by Brian Zahnd

  • The Idiot by Fyodor Dostoevsky

  • The Thought of the Heart and the Soul of the World by James Hillman

  •  Works by Flannery O'Connor

  •  Works by Cormac McCarthy

  •  Paintings of Thomas Kinkade

  •  Landscapes of J. M. W. Turner

Connect with Our Guests

Corey Frey
coreysfrey.com

Liv Ross
The Abbey of Curiosity Substack
The Blackbird Ballad

Scott Aasman
Instagram – San Illustration

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Stephen Roach
The Beauty of Vulnerability with songwriter Zan Fiskum
The Beauty of Vulnerability with songwriter Zan Fiskum

What does it cost an artist to tell the truth? Singer-songwriter Zan Fiskum has built her entire creative life around finding out. In this episode, host Stephen Roach sits down with Zan to explore how her most personal songs, about a toxic creative relationship, a fractured friendship, and a complicated bond with her mother, became anthems for strangers carrying the same quiet weight.

This is a conversation about the craft behind vulnerability: how to write specifically enough to be honest, and broadly enough to let the listener find themselves inside your story. If you've ever wondered whether your most painful experiences are worth putting into a song, this episode answers that question with a resounding yes.


Key Takeaways

  • The particular is the universal. Writing from your most specific, personal experience doesn't isolate your audience; it invites them in. The goal is to leave enough space in the lyric for listeners to find their own story.

  • Vulnerability on stage is a form of service. Sharing something raw and real can give your audience permission to feel things they didn't think they were allowed to feel, and sometimes, to take action they've been avoiding for years.

  • Faith doesn't require religious language. Drawing on C.S. Lewis, Zan articulates a conviction shared by many artists of faith: we don't need more Christian people making Christian art. We need Christians making art, beautiful, honest, human art.

  • Your constraints can become your creative fuel. Whether it's a commission, a theme, or a question crowdsourced from strangers on the internet, working within limits can push you toward material you'd never find on your own.


Resources Mentioned

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Singer-songwriter, BeautyStephen Roachzan fiskum, singer-songwwriter, beauty, vulnerability
Beauty As Survival: Breath, Embodiment, and The First Instrument
Beauty As Survival: Breath, Embodiment, and The First Instrument

Beauty As Survival: Breath, Embodiment, and The First Instrument
A conversation with Whitney Lynn

In this episode, I sit down with embodiment coach, creative director, and longtime Breath and The Clay collaborator Whitney Lynn to explore the intersections of breath, beauty, embodiment, and the creative life.

Whitney’s work centers on “returning the body to the body,” helping people come home to themselves in a culture that so often pulls us toward dissociation. Together, we explore how breath is far more than a biological necessity; it is a sacred creative force, a pathway into nervous system regulation, healing, and flow. Through breathwork, we discuss how the body becomes not an obstacle to spiritual life, but our first instrument of artistry, intuition, and connection.

This conversation continues on themes from our series on The Pace of Beauty, expanding the idea that beauty is not a luxury or superficial pursuit, but a necessary force for survival. Whitney offers insight into how beauty regulates us, heals trauma, and awakens us to deeper intimacy with ourselves, others, and God.

Together, we also confront the inherited fear of the body present in many faith spaces, tracing how distorted ideas around embodiment have often disconnected spirituality from physical presence. Whitney invites us into a richer vision—one where the body is not something to escape, but a sacred vessel through which creativity, healing, and divine encounter unfold.

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choreography, dance, Faith and Art, flow, BeautyStephen Roachembodiment, movement, flow, beauty
Make Your Home In This Luminous Dark: Contemporary Art and The Path of the Mystics with James K. A. Smith
Make Your Home In This Luminous Dark: Contemporary Art and The Path of the Mystics with James K. A. Smith

In this episode, I sit down with philosopher and author James K. A. Smith (Jamie) to explore the mystical tradition as a living pathway into deeper faith, creativity, and presence.

Jamie shares how his journey into mysticism began not through abstract theology, but through personal crisis, an experience of depression that exposed the limits of intellect and certainty. From there, voices like St. John of the Cross and Thomas Merton opened up a new way of understanding faith, not as mastery, but as surrender; not as knowing, but as unknowing.

Together, we explore what it means to “make your home in the luminous dark,” to embrace mystery as a space of transformation rather than failure. We also dive deeply into the surprising role of art, especially contemporary and “difficult” art, as a powerful and often overlooked gateway into contemplation. Rather than delivering clear messages, great art invites us into encounter, disorientation, and wonder, forming in us the very capacities needed for a mystical life.

This conversation is an invitation to let go of control, to trust the deeper currents of love beneath reality, and to discover how both mysticism and art can open us to the presence of God in ways that certainty never could.

JOIN US FOR BOOK CLUB! Every Tuesday at 8 pm EST in June 2026, we will be reading James's book online in our Patreon community! We'd love to have you with us. Visit patreon.com/makersandmystics to RSVP. 

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Author, contemplation, Contemplative Prayer, Contemporary Art, Faith and Art, PhilosophyStephen Roachphilosophy, philosopher, James K.A. Smith, Saint John of The Cross
Taking Up The Tale with Malcolm Guite
Taking Up The Tale with Malcolm Guite

What can ancient stories teach us about creativity, courage, and our own place in the modern world? 

In this episode, Stephen Roach welcomes poet and priest Malcolm Guite back to Makers & Mystics to explore his poetic retelling of King Arthur and the Holy Grail. Malcolm reflects on how these stories shaped him from childhood and why myth still carries moral and spiritual weight in a disenchanted age.

Together, they discuss the role of storytelling in recovering a sacramental vision of the world. This conversation is an invitation to re-enchantment—to slow down, commit to your craft, and take your place in the great unfolding story.

IN THIS EPISODE YOU’LL HEAR ABOUT

  • Why Arthurian legend endures: its moral and spiritual resonance

  • Taking up the tale: how myth becomes personal meaning

  • Re-enchantment: seeing the world with wonder in an age of distraction

  • The value of slow, faithful creative practice

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Adventure, Author, Enchantment, Faith and Art, Literature, poet, poetryStephen Roachmalcolmguite, malcolm guite, king arthur, fairy tales
Making Space for Meaning: The Renewal of Myth and Storytelling with Jonathan Pageau
Making Space for Meaning: The Renewal of Myth and Storytelling with Jonathan Pageau

In this episode of Makers & Mystics, Stephen Roach sits down with cultural critic, writer, and iconographer Jonathan Pageau to explore the state of contemporary storytelling and the enduring power of myth.

Pageau, creator of The Symbolic World, explains how symbols operate beneath conscious awareness to shape imagination and culture. Together, they discuss why traditional narratives appear depleted, how propaganda differs from true myth, and why fairy tales continue to communicate truths modern culture struggles to articulate.

The conversation turns toward artists and storytellers, what it means to create work rooted in beauty, transcendence, and enduring symbolic patterns rather than novelty or cynicism. The conversation also connects with the theme of The Breath and the Clay 2026 —what it means to make space: space in our art, in our imagination, and in our lives for transcendent meaning to take root.

Jonathan Pageau will be our keynote presenter for this year's event in Winston-Salem, NC, March 20-22. http://www.thebreathandtheclay.com 

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Join Malcolm Guite, Jonathan Pageau, Stephen Roach, and so many others!

http://www.thebreathandtheclay.com

Use the code "mystic26" for a special podcast listener rate!

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Myth, Orthodox, storytellingStephen RoachJonathan Pageau, The Symbolic World
The Ethics of Beauty with Dr. Timothy Patitsas
The Ethics of Beauty with Dr. Timothy Patitsas

In this episode of Makers & Mystics, Stephen Roach continues the series The Pace of Beauty with Dr. Timothy Patitsas, author of The Ethics of Beauty.

Focusing on Chapter Six, The Mystical Architect, they explore the inseparability of beauty and goodness, the cruciform nature of the artist’s journey, and how trauma has shaped modern art’s uneasy relationship with beauty. Together, they consider architecture as a foundational pattern of experience and the slow work of cultural renewal through restored patterns of beauty.

Learn more about Dr. Patitsas and his work:
 https://www.stnicholaspress.net/store/the-ethics-of-beauty

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Beauty, theology, theologianStephen Roachbeauty, Dr. Timothy Patitsas
REPLAY: Beauty As Prophetic Vision with Brian Zahnd
REPLAY: Beauty As Prophetic Vision with Brian Zahnd

This replay episode features excerpts from a 2017 conversation with author Brian Zahnd, exploring his insights on Christian aesthetics and the role of beauty in faith. 

The discussion centers on Zahnd's book, "Beauty Will Save the World," and his argument for understanding Christianity through the lens of beauty rather than relying solely on truth claims and moral arguments.

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BeautyStephen RoachBrian Zahnd, beauty
On Beauty And Repair with Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg
On Beauty And Repair with Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg

What does it mean to repair what has been broken, and can there be beauty in that work?

In this episode of Makers & Mystics, Stephen Roach is joined by Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg for a thoughtful conversation on repentance, accountability, and the demanding work of repair. As part of our ongoing series on beauty, this episode explores repentance not as performance or apology, but as a process of truth-telling, learning, and transformation.

Drawing from ancient Jewish wisdom and contemporary justice work, Rabbi Danya reflects on how individuals, communities, and institutions can move toward healing after harm—and why art, imagination, and beauty are essential for sustaining the work of justice and hope.

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theologian, Transformation, WholenessStephen Roachbeauty, Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg, Repentance, repair
The Beauty of Authenticity with songwriter John Van Deusen
The Beauty of Authenticity with songwriter John Van Deusen

Songwriter John Van Deusen joins Makers & Mystics to explore the beauty of authenticity in art, faith, and vocation. In a creative landscape that often rewards certainty and success, John reflects on the cost—and freedom—of making honesty the point.

At the center of the conversation is his latest album, As Long As I Am In The Tent of This Body I Will Make A Joyful Noise, a shape-shifting, faith-inflected collection that resists tidy resolutions and embraces vulnerability, doubt, joy, and embodied life.

Together, host Stephen Roach and John Van Deusen talk about creative calling, audience expectation, near-successes, family life, and why authenticity remains a risky—but faithful—posture for artists.

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Stephen Roachjohn van deusen, authenticity, beauty
Beauty and Resistance with Jonathan Walton
Beauty and Resistance with Jonathan Walton

What if beauty isn’t an escape from the outrage and exhaustion of the world—but a form of resistance against it?

In a culture overrun with anxiety and uncertainty, turning toward beauty can feel almost defiant. In this episode of Makers & Mystics, host Stephen Roach is joined by author, speaker, and cultural critic Jonathan P. Walton to explore how beauty forms us for resilience, integrity, and repair—both personally and communally.

Drawing from his book Beauty and Resistance: Spiritual Rhythms for Formation and Repair, Walton reflects on the spiritual and emotional work required to live truthfully in a hurried, narcissistic culture. Together, they discuss the tension between joy and guilt, the importance of celebration and lament, and the danger of the false self in spiritual formation.

Jonathan introduces the Four Rs—Rest, Restore, Resist, Repeat—as a crafted rule of life that helps us resist what deforms us while cultivating beauty, depth, and intentional living. He also shares the backstory behind his poem “Change of Plans,” offering insight into how community, faith, and honesty shape the long journey toward wholeness.

This conversation is an invitation to slow down, tend to what is wounded, and rediscover beauty not as escape—but as faithful resistance.

Resources & Links

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Beauty, black artistsStephen Roach
The Pace of Beauty (New Podcast Series)
The Pace of Beauty (New Podcast Series)

Moving at the Pace of Beauty

Season Introduction — Makers & Mystics Podcast

Elaine Scarry writes that “beauty quickens. It adrenalizes. It makes the heart beat faster.” Beauty is immediate in this way. It strikes us unaware and de-centers us, throwing us off balance and ushering us into a moment of euphoria.

Beauty comes to us in a flash, a sudden recognition, or a moment of beholding; however, its effects call for a much slower pace, one of deliberation and contemplation.

The pace of beauty runs counter to the breakneck speed of modern society. When we are hurrying along from one task to the next, we don’t take time to notice the tiny flowers along the roadside. We don’t see the grains within the hardwood or the elaborate stitching within a hand-woven rug. Beauty, then, is sometimes hidden and only reveals itself to those willing to slow down and surrender their gaze.

In this new series of Makers and Mystics, we’re going to explore the pace of beauty and how it serves as a conduit of grace and creative unction. We’re going to hear from a collection of artists, theologians, and creative instigators on how beauty impacts them spiritually and creatively. 

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BeautyStephen Roachbeauty
How Beauty Will Save The World with Winfield Bevins
How Beauty Will Save The World with Winfield Bevins

What role does beauty play in a fractured and hurried world—and what might happen if we allowed it to slow us down?

This episode marks the beginning of a new Makers and Mystics series, The Pace of Beauty, exploring how beauty invites us into a more attentive and spiritually grounded way of living.

In this opening conversation, Stephen Roach is joined by Winfield Bevins, author, artist, and founder of Creo Arts, a missional arts community awakening the world to the beauty of the Christian story.  Together, they explore the themes of Winfield's book How Beauty Will Save the World and reflect on the intersection of art, faith, and community.

Winfield shares personal stories of how art became a lifeline during a formative season of his life, and how creative practices can function as spiritual disciplines. He emphasizes the transformative power of beauty and the arts in a broken world, advocating for a deeper integration of creativity within the church. 

Book Offer for Listeners

Oaks Press is offering listeners of Makers and Mystics a free copy of Winfield Bevins’s book How Beauty Will Save the World. Simply cover the cost of shipping and use the code MAKERS at checkout.

Get your copy here:
 How Beauty Will Save the World — Oaks Press

Resources

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BeautyStephen Roachwinfield bevins, beauty
The Person and The Persona: Mental Health, Fame, and the Artist’s Soul
The Person and The Persona: Mental Health, Fame, and the Artist’s Soul

In this episode of Makers and Mystics, host Stephen Roach is joined by Jared Farley of Porter’s Call, a nonprofit dedicated to supporting the emotional and mental health of touring artists and their families.

Together, they explore the tension between persona and person, stage life and home life, and the unique pressures artists face when identity becomes brand. The conversation examines the impact of fame on the human soul, the importance of sustainable rhythms, and why community and storytelling are essential for healing and wholeness.

Jared shares insights into why the soul is not built for fame, how isolation fuels addiction, and how intentional care and connection help artists return to themselves. Whether you’re a touring musician, a creative professional, or someone seeking greater integration in your life, this conversation offers practical wisdom for the journey toward wholeness.

Resources

  • Porter’s Call: https://www.porterscall.com

  • Backline: https://backline.care/

  • Makers and Mystics Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/makersandmystics

  • Get Tickets to BC26 http://www.thebreathandtheclay.com

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Stephen Roach
Making Space for Creative Community: Behind the Scenes of Breath and Clay 2026
Making Space for Creative Community: Behind the Scenes of Breath and Clay 2026

In this episode, Stephen Roach sits down with creative collaborators Justin McRoberts, Whitney Hancock, and Corey Frey for a conversation about the art of building authentic creative community.

From introducing their new online offering, "The Light Between," to a behind-the-scenes look at the upcoming Breath and the Clay 2026 event, themed "Making Space," this conversation explores how artists can create meaningful spaces for vulnerability, process, and mutual discovery in their creative work.

This episode is a celebration of artistic collaboration, meaningful friendship, and the quiet transformation that happens when we make room for mystery. 

About the Guests:

Corey Frey is a visual artist, poet, and musician based in Frederick, Maryland. Alongside his wife Christy, he co-founded The Well Collaborative, a community devoted to wonder, hospitality, and creativity. Corey serves as Exhibitions Manager at the Delaplaine Arts Center and is also a co-host of the Makers & Mystics Creative Collective book clubs.

Justin McRoberts is an author, speaker, musician, and spiritual director whose work bridges storytelling, faith, and creative formation. Through books, retreats, and mentorship, Justin helps people uncover their voice and live with greater authenticity. His work invites individuals and communities into deeper reflection, meaningful transformation, and a more embodied approach to creativity and spiritual life.

Whitney Hancock is an embodiment coach and creative director whose work centers on restoring presence, emotional honesty, and embodied spirituality. A former founding director of the Redding City Dance Company, Whitney now leads spaces—online and in person—where movement, breath, and nervous system awareness help people reconnect with the sacred intelligence of their bodies.

Stephen Roach is the founder of The Breath & The Clay and host of the Makers & Mystics podcast. He is a poet, creative mentor, and multi-instrumentalist with a background in ethnomusicology and film composition. His forthcoming book, How To See Invisible Things, will be published in October 2026 with Zondervan Reflective.

Opportunities & Resources:

🤍 Support the podcast & join the Makers & Mystics Creative Collective
patreon.com/makersandmystics

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Stephen Roach
Creating Monsters: Guillermo del Toro's Frankenstein and the Horror of Unchecked Ambition
Creating Monsters: Guillermo del Toro's Frankenstein and the Horror of Unchecked Ambition

In this inter-seasonal episode, Stephen Roach is joined by returning guests Paul Anleitner and John Mark McMillan for a discussion of Guillermo del Toro’s new Frankenstein adaptation. Together they explore del Toro’s visual storytelling, the spiritual and theological roots of Mary Shelley’s original vision, and why horror remains one of the most powerful vehicles for truth in our modern age.

What We Discuss

  • Mary Shelley’s Origin Story
    The Geneva “ghost story” challenge, volcanic winter, and the dream that inspired Frankenstein—plus the timely synchronicity with Stephen’s upcoming book.

  • Del Toro’s Visual Parable
    Color symbolism, the contrast between Victor and the creature, and how the film communicates its meaning through pure imagery.

  • Theology, Philosophy & Monsters
    Del Toro’s spiritual connection to the story, humanity’s desire to play creator, and how horror works only within a moral universe.

  • Ambition, Ego & Shadow
    Victor and the creature as two halves of the same self, crucifixion imagery, and why many successful people feel they’ve “created monsters” of their own.

  • Why Horror Still Haunts Us
    Horror as enchantment, ancient narrative patterns, and our longing for stories that reveal hidden cosmic significance.

Guests

  • Paul Anleitner – paulanleitner.substack.com

  • John Mark McMillan – johnmarkmcmillan.com

Host

Stephen Roach, author of the upcoming How to See Invisible Things (October 2026).
makersandmystics.com • thebreathandtheclay.com

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Get Tickets to The Breath and The Clay 2026 featuring Malcolm Guite, Jon Guerra, and Jonathan Pageau! March 20-22 in Winston Salem, NC.

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The Breath and The Clay 2026
The Breath and The Clay 2026


At The Breath & The Clay 2026, we are exploring what it means to make space—for rest, for renewal, for art, for one another, and for the Presence that meets us in the emptiness. Together, we will practice making room: for the unfinished, and the unfurnished, for the overlooked, for voices not our own. In this space, we will make art—our response to the silence that precedes creation, our offering to the mystery and miracle that ever calls us onward.

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Stephen Roach
S15 E15: Resistance and Flow (Season Finale)
S15 E15: Resistance and Flow (Season Finale)

In this season finale, Stephen Roach closes out our exploration of creative flow with a rich conversation with several artists from the Makers & Mystics Patreon community. Joining the discussion are artist and educator Angela Houk, writer and branding expert Steve Brock, and poet and visual artist Corey Frey.

Together, the crew explores the interplay between resistance and flow—how creative blocks, limitations, and even frustrations can actually become the conditions that allow new work to emerge and personal character to develop. As Wendell Berry reminds us, “the impeded stream is the one that sings.”

This episode examines:

  • Why resistance can be a gift in the creative process.

  • How Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi’s theory of flow connects to happiness and fulfillment.

  • The balance between focus and receptivity in both art and relationships.

  • How preparation, practice, and openness set the stage for flow.

  • The “radical middle” where challenge and skill converge

  • Connecting the experience of flow to the Holy Spirit

This is a thoughtful, inspiring conversation on navigating resistance, finding flow, and staying open to the creativity that emerges when we least expect it.

Connect with the guests:

Angela Houk

Steve Brock

Corey Frey

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finding flow, flow, Round Table, RoundtableStephen Roachflow, Finding flow, creative collective, roundtable
S15 E14: Sound Symbols: Foley Art in Film with Ronnie Van Der Veer
S15 E14: Sound Symbols: Foley Art in Film with Ronnie Van Der Veer

Behind the curtain of cinema lies a hidden language, spoken not in words, but in sound.


In this episode of Makers and Mystics, Stephen Roach interviews Foley artist Ronnie Van Der Veer, exploring the intricate world of sound design in film. Ronnie shares his journey into Foley art, the importance of creating realistic sound effects, and the techniques he employs to enhance the cinematic experience. The conversation explores the creative process behind sound symbolism, and practical advice for aspiring Foley artists. Through case studies of films like 'The Occupant' and 'The Forgotten Battle,' listeners gain insight into the art of sound and its profound impact on storytelling.

About the guest:  Ronnie van der Veer is an award winning foley artist from the Netherlands. From his studio just outside Amsterdam he has worked on movies like The Lobster by Yorgos Lanthimos, Girl by Lukas Dhont, war movie The Forgotten Battle and various Netflix, Disney and Amazon Originals. Ronnie uses his background as a drummer in his work as a foley artist.

See more of Ronnie's work:

www.foleytales.com

Instagram 

https://www.instagram.com/foley.tales/

Films referenced in this episode:  

The Forgotten Battle: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10521092/?ref_=nm_knf_t_2

The Occupant: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7230422/?ref_=nm_flmg_job_1_cdt_t_6


Connect with Makers and Mystics:

Patreon: http://www.patreon.com/makersandmystics

Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/makersandmystics

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Creative Process, film, film score, finding flow, flow, Found Art, soundscapes, foley artStephen Roachfoley art, Ronnie Van Der Veer, Flow, Finding flow, film, soundscapes
Artist Profile Series 39: Simeon Stylites the Elder
Artist Profile Series 39: Simeon Stylites the Elder

What does the life of a bizarre fifth-century monk have to offer our lives in the modern world today? 


This episode of the Makers and Mystics podcast explores the life and influence of Simeon Stylites, a Syrian Christian ascetic known for his extreme devotion and outlandish lifestyle of standing atop a pillar for 37 years. 

Stephen Roach highlights Simeon's early life, his ascetic practices, and the profound impact he had on society during his time. The discussion reveals how Simeon's unwavering commitment to prayer and his role as a public figure offers an example for how we stand atop our own pillars and digital platforms today. 

Join the Makers and Mystics creative collective 

Apply to attend The Breath and The Clay writer's retreat, November 21-23rd, in Moravian Falls, NC. 

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S15 E13: Confessional Transcendence with Poet and Actor Amy Leigh Wicks
S15 E13: Confessional Transcendence with Poet and Actor Amy Leigh Wicks

Amy Leigh Wicks is a poet, actress, and educator from New York City. She holds a PhD in Creative Writing from Victoria University of Wellington in New Zealand and an MFA from The New School in New York. She recently served as Dean of Performing Arts at Bethel Conservatory of the Arts and is the author of The Dangerous Country of Love and Marriage (Auckland University Press, 2019) and Orange Juice and Rooftops (Eloquent Books, 2009).

In this episode, Stephen Roach talks with Amy about the intersection of presence, performance, and poetic confession. Their conversation explores the emotional depth of character work, the daily rhythms that sustain creativity, and the subtle terrain where vulnerability gives way to transcendence.

At the heart of the conversation, Amy unpacks the idea of confessional transcendence—the mysterious way raw honesty in art can lead beyond self-expression into something sacred and universal. Through personal stories and reflections, she explores how poetry and acting together deepen her awareness of beauty, pain, and the human condition. The episode culminates in a moving reading of her poetry that embodies the very themes explored.

Resources: 

Get Amy's Book: The Dangerous Country of Love and Marriage

Support The Podcast! Show some love! If this, or other episodes, have helped you in your creative/spiritual journey, become a monthly patron. 

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flow, finding flowStephen RoachFinding flow, flow, Transcendence
S15 E12: The Ghost Life with author Prasanta Verma
S15 E12: The Ghost Life with author Prasanta Verma

As artists, we live our lives between worlds, the one in which we imagine and the one in which we must survive. But what do we do when the life we imagine and the life we live are incongruent? Often our lives look much different on paper than they do in our dreams.  

Joining us for this conversation is author, speaker, and public health professional Prasanta Verma. Prasanta's first book, Beyond Ethnic Loneliness, was released in April 2024 and is a 2024 INDIES Foreword Book of the Year Finalist. Prasanta is a graduate of the Kenyon Writers Workshop, a Write On Door County Writing Residency, and one of her essays won Honorable Mention in the WI Writers Jade Ring Essay Contest in 2023. Prasanta writes to help us feel seen and find a sense of belonging, and wants to help us envision a society where we are healthier and more connected. She is both an academic and creative, and is currently working on her doctorate in public health.

In this episode, Prasanta shares about the concept of the ghost life and how art bridges the gap between our lived experiences and our aspirations. She shares insights on the importance of community, the difference between solitude and isolation, and the need for radical acceptance to keep creative flow through life's unexpected turns.

Resources: 

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authors, Author, flow, finding flowStephen Roachthe ghost life, presanta verma, flow, finding flow
S15 E11: Urgency and Intimacy with Julian Davis Reid
S15 E11: Urgency and Intimacy with Julian Davis Reid

“How do we hold both urgency and intimacy in our creative practices? How can an artist become a vessel of divine presence — not only in churches, but on club stages, in studios, and in everyday life?”

In today’s episode, I’m joined by jazz and gospel pianist Julian Davis Reid — a Chicago-based artist-theologian whose work sits at the crossroads of sound, spirit, and scholarship. Julian is a founding member of the jazz-electronic fusion group The JuJu Exchange and the creator of Notes of Rest, a ministry that invites the weary into the rest of God practiced in the Bible and Black music.

In our conversation, Julian and I talk about finding flow as a spiritual discipline, the tension between performance and presence, and what it means to make art that is both urgent and intimate. 

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S15 E10: The Art of Becoming with Jon Guerra
S15 E10: The Art of Becoming with Jon Guerra

How does imagination shape not only our art but our spiritual formation? And what does it mean to hold space for play, growth, and even disappointment within our creative process?

In this episode, Stephen Roach is joined by Jon Guerra — a singer, songwriter, and film composer based in Austin, Texas, whose work is marked by its devotional nature and spiritual depth.

Jon shares the inspiration behind his latest record, Jesus, a deeply personal and contemplative album born from the tension between daily life and artistic calling. The conversation explores his experience scoring Terrence Malick’s A Hidden Life, the unpredictable and iterative nature of the creative process, and how imagination serves as a vital tool in both spiritual formation and the search for creative flow.

Topics Include:

Imagination as a tool for spiritual and artistic formation

Finding creative flow amidst life’s changing seasons

The role of play, growth, and disappointment in the creative process

Scoring for film and the collaborative, iterative nature of that work

The inspiration behind Jon’s new album Jesus

The relationship between daily demands and sustained creativity

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